08-02-2016, 12:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2016, 12:15 PM by Eric the Green.)
Dialogue is not a prominent feature of fourth turnings. There is some kind of war, and one side wins. Then consensus develops around the winning side. As you say, what you call the "secular side" or the liberal side will win, and a consensus will develop around it. During the consensus time, some dialogue is possible, but it does not go deep. In the second turning, and to some extent in the late first turning, deeper experiences and conversations occur, and new visions for our future are developed. On the other hand, a new polarization also begins.
It is interesting though, that a real deep dialogue is rare in any of the turnings described by Strauss and Howe. I have said that it's a dysfunctional cycle. It is always polarized around the basic Cartesian split of our society between the spiritual and the material. In my opinion, the cycle will continue to be dysfunctional as long as the spiritual revelations of the second turnings do not become the basis of society in all turnings. Only societies that have a spiritual basis are functional and sustainable.
Our society will decline and collapse if this basis does not develop during the next saeculum. However, like the Roman Empire, it will limp along until the next Neptune-Pluto conjunction that indicates the next cycle of civilization, along about 2400 AD. A new spiritual society does seem unlikely, given the fact that Generation X and the Millennials have thrown over the previous Awakening and have not made it the basis of a new culture, leaving this to boomers and silents who are not going to be around much longer. This was supposed to be the time of the golden age; I'm not sure that leaving this to the next artists and prophets will work, because the cycle is already getting past the golden age by then. Although to some extent such golden ages, in more limited ways, have continued during the whole second century of the cycle (which this time, as you know, began around 1892-- NOT 1776).
Oh well; although only societies with a spiritual basis survive, in The West society has always devolved into a cycle of civilization when this has disappeared, and civilization crumbles afterward. This has happened in at least two previous cases. But a new civilization always comes along. At a minimum, if this is to happen, today's society is going to have to learn to live materially in harmony with the Earth, and this will require at least a "semi-spiritual" recognition that other beings besides humans are entitled to the right to life. This too will be decided soon, probably in this turning, and it is largely a political decision. There is some hope that we will make the right decision in time.
I don't know if you call this is a "dialogue;" it is simply that people will need to become informed enough, and willing enough to change the kinds of physical energy technology that we use. The "value" of economic "freedom" for business is the chief one that needs to be questioned and put in the back seat. Libertarians of various stripes need to take note, and learn to modify this "value." The future depends on enough of you doing this.
A continued capitalist and even corporate system is not is disharmony with such a change; it will continue in this cycle of civilization. It's just that a rigid and utopian veneration of business "freedom" and opposition to regulation and state investment will not work. To a large extent, new entreprenuers are the ones pushing forward this change, so that is not in disharmony with libertarian values. Government help and regulation is also needed however.
It is interesting though, that a real deep dialogue is rare in any of the turnings described by Strauss and Howe. I have said that it's a dysfunctional cycle. It is always polarized around the basic Cartesian split of our society between the spiritual and the material. In my opinion, the cycle will continue to be dysfunctional as long as the spiritual revelations of the second turnings do not become the basis of society in all turnings. Only societies that have a spiritual basis are functional and sustainable.
Our society will decline and collapse if this basis does not develop during the next saeculum. However, like the Roman Empire, it will limp along until the next Neptune-Pluto conjunction that indicates the next cycle of civilization, along about 2400 AD. A new spiritual society does seem unlikely, given the fact that Generation X and the Millennials have thrown over the previous Awakening and have not made it the basis of a new culture, leaving this to boomers and silents who are not going to be around much longer. This was supposed to be the time of the golden age; I'm not sure that leaving this to the next artists and prophets will work, because the cycle is already getting past the golden age by then. Although to some extent such golden ages, in more limited ways, have continued during the whole second century of the cycle (which this time, as you know, began around 1892-- NOT 1776).
Oh well; although only societies with a spiritual basis survive, in The West society has always devolved into a cycle of civilization when this has disappeared, and civilization crumbles afterward. This has happened in at least two previous cases. But a new civilization always comes along. At a minimum, if this is to happen, today's society is going to have to learn to live materially in harmony with the Earth, and this will require at least a "semi-spiritual" recognition that other beings besides humans are entitled to the right to life. This too will be decided soon, probably in this turning, and it is largely a political decision. There is some hope that we will make the right decision in time.
I don't know if you call this is a "dialogue;" it is simply that people will need to become informed enough, and willing enough to change the kinds of physical energy technology that we use. The "value" of economic "freedom" for business is the chief one that needs to be questioned and put in the back seat. Libertarians of various stripes need to take note, and learn to modify this "value." The future depends on enough of you doing this.
A continued capitalist and even corporate system is not is disharmony with such a change; it will continue in this cycle of civilization. It's just that a rigid and utopian veneration of business "freedom" and opposition to regulation and state investment will not work. To a large extent, new entreprenuers are the ones pushing forward this change, so that is not in disharmony with libertarian values. Government help and regulation is also needed however.