I'm a sceptic that the 4th Turning started in 2008

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-03-2020, 06:57 PM)Mikebert Wrote: Right now the Democrats are doing their damnest to prevent a trigger from happening. Republicans are exerting their old values to prevent taking action that would help Republicans come back to power. Democrats are trying to help them come back to power by trying to pass the Heroes bill.

Republicans say they will never vote for help to the states. Are you predicting right now that Democrats WON'T cave and vote on the skinny Republican bill?

I do believe the old values and new are in honest open conflict.  A trigger, a major event that makes the old values essentially dissolve, is exactly what the Democrats want.  Oh, many of them aren’t into S&H Theory.  They may not perceive things that way.  Still, the Democrats want to become the dominant political force in shaping the country.

I can’t argue that the Republicans are not discrediting themselves.  If you have watched the adds by Republican Voters Against Trump, the Lincoln Project and VoteVets, you know the Democrats don’t have to run negative attack adds.  (YouTube has been feeding me a lot of such pieces.)  The Republicans are doing that for them, in many ways more effectively than the Democrats could.  All Biden has to do is look presidential.  The negative ads are about what it takes to clobber the old values.  They are not the only thing.  The Tea Party attacked the elitism of the Republican.  Black Lives Matter attacked the violence and racism.  The corruption and power seeking tendencies of Trump are part of it.  Together they make the sort of storm that can discredit a perspective.

I have been debating with folks like Classic, and taking seriously the warnings Dave gives about how dedicated the folks in his area are to the old values.  People tend to form a world view, and not shift it at all lightly.  It takes a really big deal to change it.  A crisis in the 4T is one time when a whole bunch of people do change.  This is because the old values, the old way of thinking, is demonstrated to be no longer viable.  It usually takes a really bad leader dedicated to the old values wildily out of season to cause such a change.  One could look at leaders such as George III, Buchanan, Hoover, Bush 43 and now Trump as playing an important role in turning theory.  (This does not really do enough honor to George III, Buchanan and Hoover.)  In many ways their role is as important as that of grey champion.  One demonstrates how the old values don’t work anymore, and the other demonstrates how the new values do.

If you do not see how Trump is one of the bad leaders, if you can’t recognize how the old values have become untenable, if you cannot even tell the difference between a catalyst and a trigger, you are for some reason keeping your eyes shut, are not looking at reality honestly.

Now I cannot say whether the Democrats might cave.  The Republicans are in charge now a little bit longer.  The Democrats will do their best during what is rapidly becoming a lame duck period to help the people, making sure the Republican get the credit for what they do in opposition.  The real change cannot happen until Inauguration Day.