(06-05-2018, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:(06-04-2018, 04:46 PM)TheNomad Wrote:(06-04-2018, 09:27 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:(06-04-2018, 03:34 AM)TheNomad Wrote:(06-04-2018, 12:44 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: The consciousness revolution of the 2T was for everyone, and remains open to everyone. It is about a fuller, richer life, and those of us in the movement believe that means finding a better life for everyone. "frolicking" and discovery of the inner life is for everyone. We did need to reduce the children we had (I "neglected" my children to such an extent that I did not have any at all), and some silent and boomer parents neglected their children too. That was the nomad's lot. I hear that, but on the other hand, it also enabled you to be more self-reliant, self-directed and pragmatic survivalists; the mark and talent of your generation. There were advantages to your plight, as well as difficulties. One advantage you had, being part of a less-numerous generation than boomers, was less competition for available jobs. That was very hard for me to deal with.
To resent what your elders did, and thereby reject the spiritual renaissance that we and others started, and that is part of a heritage that goes back millennia, is not an advantage to you though. But it's your choice whether to do that. It is all open to you, and opening to spirit does have its moral dividends too, and we wanted it for everyone.
You correctly noted that it takes more than politics to being about a better world. I just pointed out that this requires the spiritual renaissance that you guys have rejected. It would be wise for your generation to take another look, now that you are grown and can look past your resentment of elders, just as we boomers had to do when we were grown. The only non-political means to bring the growth in moral awareness that you say we need, is to pursue this spiritual renaissance and inner discovery which, when understood, does not promote selfishness, no matter how selfish many boomers actually were and still are.
I guess these internet discussions are fun. But sadly, it rarely results in any exchange of knowledge or opening to alternative ideas or feelings. Mere words on a screen are not very convincing, and don't resonate very deeply. That is true in our dialogue. I explained why 9-11 is not the crisis, and you just re-posted your question; there you go....
I need to be sick more often to be seeing posts! But if you responded to 911 no crisis I must have missed it? will look.
But I gotta say: That was the nomad's lot. I hear that, but on the other hand
That is the Nomad's life. "WE HEAR YOU, BUT...". Then you want to include everyone into the renaissance. I have no ill-will for positive thinking nor for realizing what about my childhood was awesome and what sucked. But it's amazing the glossing over and the "well, just look on the bright side" that doesn't happen to millennial children.
Also, I'm for real. You can take every word on the screen for what I'm about. My written word skills are SO exceptional as to convey the
version of my best self and with a communication level far exceeding most.
When I first looked, I wanted to agree with the renaissance idea being an answer to this evil we see in Corporatacracy and super-wealthy kin scheming to stay up there at our expense. But according to the Strauss & Howe ideas it is the opposite. Prophets are a dark-mirror image of Heroes. It is the very inner renaissance of the prophets which bring so much entropy and doom. The Heroes are NOT inner-directed souls on a path to bio-enlightenment, they are outer-directed souls on a path to systemic transformation.
So, you may be confused (with all respect, sir).
S&H did not say prophets are a dark mirror image of heroes. They say all archetypes are necessary to the process. Prophet idealism provides the direction and blueprint for reform and change during the 4T. That blueprint is there for us. Yes, that's correct about Heroes. They are outer-directed and will be primarily interested in systemic transformation. And that will be about politics. The majority of what is needed to change the corporatacracy now is political. Even so, the next 10 years will not transform it entirely; It will still be there. I hope and expect some reforms which will set our political process back on the right path. During the 1T these reforms will be consolidated and extended. But the next Second Turning, when the Alpha Prophets come of age and Gen Z is in midlife, will bring back the consciousness revolution both outwardly and inwardly, and it will fulfill many of the goals of the sixties revolution and further extend the spiritual renaissance inwardly and the green revolution outwardly.
S&H do point to the consciousness revolution as having the side effect of too much inner focus and narcissism. But that is because American culture is not able to understand and pursue inward transformation as it truly is. Our culture is too commercial, materialist and self-centered to begin with, for it not to coopt a spiritual renaissance. But there were many boomers and other participants who pursued it well. And they became good, supportive parents to millennials. It has brought transformation to a degree; just not enough. That just means it must continue. In a healthy society, spirituality continues through all turnings, whereas in ours, so far, it has only happened in 2Ts, with only non-spiritual traditional religion happening in the other turnings.
The consciousness revolution is the only path to putting our moral and inner lives on a higher plane. Our nation needs to become a spiritual and not a materialist one. You say politics alone can't transform the corporatocracy. That is true; but then the only alternative is to transform ourselves and our worldview; the way we perceive ourselves and the world. There's a third alternative though; and that's just to be cynical and let things unfold the way they are going now. I don't see that as resulting in anything but the rapid decline and fall of our society. Gen Xers need to look beyond resentment and critique of the consciousness revolution, and instead embrace it and what it offers both outwardly and inwardly.
If millennials are not told to look on the bright side, it's because they naturally do, and Xers don't. The millennials got more support in childhood than Xers did. So yes, Xers need to cultivate just enough hope and idealism to be able to contribute their pragmatic and managerial talents to working through the crisis and emerging into the 1T which they will oversee.
It's hard to believe that we prophets will be over the hill and start disappearing just 10 years from now. Boomers to me will always be the "new generation," and I will always see them as dedicated to transforming the world, even if most of us have had our inspiration and dedication to higher consciousness and social and economic idealism just dry up and fade away. But I think some of us will continue to be young in heart and body, and keep on contributing and helping to lead the way forward in the 1T to come in just 10 years.
S&H did not say prophets are a dark mirror image of heroes.
I make up my own terminology to simplify. S&H make very clear the distinction between INNER DIRECTED prophets and OUTER DIRECTED Heroes. One causes the doom and the other fixes it.
Being inner-directed does not cause dooms. It means we inner-directed ones can think for ourselves and make our own decisions. We don't cause the doom; we envision the solution which the heroes later act on.
I completely disagree and so do the authors of the text we are drawing from. All the work done by GIs to make stable institutions and an OUTER world boomers could have the American Dream in abundance, the boomers shunned them completely and trashed the institutions made so lovingly for them. The Heroes are obsessed with fixing broken institutions and creating stability and justice...... then their children say "you suck cause dad you are boring and mom you are oppressed, no one is having sex, the movies you make are lame and predictable" blah blah.................. then they squat in the mud because Jimi Hendrix combined with their acid trip is the INNER DIRECTED experience of "I Am The Vessel For Enlightenment". Then, they leave the concert with heaps of trash no one cleans up, a bombed community overrun with stank aliens, and eventually they all go back home and spread the herpes to their respective Ground Zeros.
We know where it goes from there. That's just a REALLY good encapsulated story.
This inner direction must happen because I believe cycles happen. Nobody likes death but the nutrients renew the surroundings and more growth happens. That doesn't mean it isn't destructive. The extreme inner-directed lives of the prophet archetype causes hell on our collective environment through their entire cycle. It just sucks their trip has to bring down the institutions that were THERE for them most of their lives but not for others. They got the best of everything and they still manage to complain the most.
I don't think prophets "envision the solution" at all. They all envision their own solutions (or not, they may just be too busy arguing without purpose at all) but they want it their way, through their model, in their respective ideology OR NOT AT ALL. Then, nothing happens. I don't see the concept of prophets in power who then hand over all the grand fixes to Heroes who then process it with rubber stamp?
is u cray?
If anything, I see a group of well-intentioned younger people walking into sort of a walmart when they are selling flatscreens at 4am for $99 and everyone has a weapon.............. so these younger people are like "how do we stop them?" So, there's no legislation or vision or prepared documents or committee sitting there........ they have to first get these angry lone nuts under control and remind them about the thing called ORDER and how there's shit to get done so hurry up and get your TV without killing anyone, then get back here so we can get to work.
I swear to god that is how I see it.
I have been accused of supreme hyperbole, but it often works. So, I can't see what you mean with that statement. But full circle, Inner and Outer directed mindset both have their benefit. We only need look at my post and the things I say (and of course everyone) I come from a place where I WANT the strong institution, I WANT the competent government services and processes, I WANT the police to work properly, I WANT order on the streets, etc. Why? Because I came from a place where none of that existed. From such a broken time when it was "ASSUMED no one is in charge". <-- that's a direct quote from 4T about Nomads. I had a time in my life when I did all the things I hate people do today with no respect for others and doing havoc simply because I could, risky behavior, DRUGS, and now I am older and want ME to stfu while I am trying to read a book on the deck. So I get it. I know about the inner discovery. But it is destructive. If anyone of us had to choose whether to have sex drugs and rock but there are no banks (hide cash in private safe if you can afford one) which do you want? I also strongly believe in balance. Perhaps the last prophets took it WAY too far. Inner direction is ultimately selfishness. Ultimately. Look at Artists and compare them with the Prophet. There are a lot of similarities but the Artist sort of has that balance since it knows from early on what a Crisis is like, so it does not want any parts of that.......... yet they grow up in a world that Heroes have FIXED which leaves them free to create and build on that platform............... then the prophets come again and want to tear it all down again.
Sure I keep generalizing because in such a platform one must to an extent. But the way in which the prophet comes to be is almost a timebomb.... or a perfect storm. Like, to grow up with every advantage then become SO bored to just trash institutions in their wake while looking for that thing U2 says you won't find anyway. I could write a whole text about this based on my experience as someone who lived under them in every capacity and experienced their "wake" in a personal quest and being a human sacrifice of that quest. If that's happening on a personal level in a home environment, extrapolate what that will do to the society at-large: in business, in politics, in interpersonal relationships, "networking" & Humans-As-Commodity, amoral marketing, on and on ∞