12-12-2016, 01:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2016, 02:22 AM by Eric the Green.)
The point that Warren misses, among others, is that Bush went into Iraq with the notion that we could leave when the new government asked us to leave. He and his minions gave the new Iraqi government that we installed the notion that they were sovereign. Bush worked out the timetable for leaving; Obama just followed it.
World War Two was fought to win, not to gratify emotions, but because those governments were deadly, genocidally dangerous and could not be permitted to exist any further. And because the goal of unconditional surrender was necessary to hold the alliance with Russia together.
I don't know if Trump can get away with what Bush did to Iraq. My guess is no, but no-one should underestimate Trump's persuasive powers. He has a friendly congress which is gerrymandered in the same states with which he won the presidency, so it's possible. I doubt he could persuade a majority of the people though; he's down by over 2,700,000 votes. So no doubt it would be unpopular. So was Bush's Iraq invasion; he nearly lost the 2004 election over it, and the opponents fought as hard as they (we, I should say) did to stop the war. The published literature on it alone was mountainous.
I dread Trump taking over the war on IS. His plans to kill civilians and torture the enemy as well as steal the oil may or may not be campaign rhetoric. For sure he knows nothing about war strategy, and yet he thinks he knows more than the generals do and can win because he has a good brain (genetics and racism, you know; his eugenic fascist belief system). I just hope Obama can take Mosul before he leaves office. The rest will be fairly easy and Trump won't be able to do as much damage.
The error you mention Warren, is exactly the error NATO made in Libya. Hillary explained that the same thing occurred as in Iraq; the Libyans didn't want NATO troops in their country on the ground.
USA conservatives don't know much about waging war; but neither have USA liberals. Liberals have had sense enough since Vietnam to stay out of needless wars. Republicans did not learn the lesson at all; precisely the opposite. They still resent the hippie peaceniks and see the anti-war movement and Democratic presidential behavior as weakness and betrayal of American greatness. Trump presents an ambiguous appeal, but so far his appointments suggest that at least in his first years he's going to yield to the most-typical right-wing conservatism possible. That means, it appears, that his foreign policy will be interventionist.
Fortunately, the astrology cycle that you don't believe in comes into play, making another major USA intervention under the Trump administration unlikely. But this cycle is as reliable as the saeculum touted here on this site, as you would have known if you watched my video.
In any case, a war cycle is common sense. America is not ready now for another "just cause" invasion "to save the world for democrac." or "spread democracy around the world." We are still war weary. Trump and the conservative militarists he has appointed will have to give that consideration, because the people will make it very clear. That's why things happen in cycles. It takes a while for people to forget what happened "the last time."
World War Two was fought to win, not to gratify emotions, but because those governments were deadly, genocidally dangerous and could not be permitted to exist any further. And because the goal of unconditional surrender was necessary to hold the alliance with Russia together.
I don't know if Trump can get away with what Bush did to Iraq. My guess is no, but no-one should underestimate Trump's persuasive powers. He has a friendly congress which is gerrymandered in the same states with which he won the presidency, so it's possible. I doubt he could persuade a majority of the people though; he's down by over 2,700,000 votes. So no doubt it would be unpopular. So was Bush's Iraq invasion; he nearly lost the 2004 election over it, and the opponents fought as hard as they (we, I should say) did to stop the war. The published literature on it alone was mountainous.
I dread Trump taking over the war on IS. His plans to kill civilians and torture the enemy as well as steal the oil may or may not be campaign rhetoric. For sure he knows nothing about war strategy, and yet he thinks he knows more than the generals do and can win because he has a good brain (genetics and racism, you know; his eugenic fascist belief system). I just hope Obama can take Mosul before he leaves office. The rest will be fairly easy and Trump won't be able to do as much damage.
The error you mention Warren, is exactly the error NATO made in Libya. Hillary explained that the same thing occurred as in Iraq; the Libyans didn't want NATO troops in their country on the ground.
USA conservatives don't know much about waging war; but neither have USA liberals. Liberals have had sense enough since Vietnam to stay out of needless wars. Republicans did not learn the lesson at all; precisely the opposite. They still resent the hippie peaceniks and see the anti-war movement and Democratic presidential behavior as weakness and betrayal of American greatness. Trump presents an ambiguous appeal, but so far his appointments suggest that at least in his first years he's going to yield to the most-typical right-wing conservatism possible. That means, it appears, that his foreign policy will be interventionist.
Fortunately, the astrology cycle that you don't believe in comes into play, making another major USA intervention under the Trump administration unlikely. But this cycle is as reliable as the saeculum touted here on this site, as you would have known if you watched my video.
In any case, a war cycle is common sense. America is not ready now for another "just cause" invasion "to save the world for democrac." or "spread democracy around the world." We are still war weary. Trump and the conservative militarists he has appointed will have to give that consideration, because the people will make it very clear. That's why things happen in cycles. It takes a while for people to forget what happened "the last time."