(10-28-2016, 05:09 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(10-28-2016, 04:32 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

Where the heck do you live to believe that is happening? I talk to American millennials daily and I get the opposite impression.

LOL @ "Assimilated by the Borg." BTW - those dudes in the first pic - that pic was taken at Fairchild ... not long before the pictured group split off to start Intel. Lot's of "conformity" - LOL.

Now, that pic looks to be around '60....

(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:



I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

(10-29-2016, 07:53 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:



I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.

Why do you feel deprived and going through this time period for no reason? As for conforming it is just a matter of finding your group that you share something in common with.

(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:



I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.

Quote:Robert Reich
October 28 at 5:22pm ·
Yesterday I spoke with a former Republican member of Congress whom I’ve known for years.
Me: What do you think of your party’s nominee for president?
He: Trump is a maniac. He’s a clear and present danger to America.
Me: Have you said publicly that you won’t vote for him?
He (sheepishly): No.
Me: Why not?
He: I’m a coward.
Me: What do you mean?
He: I live in a state with a lot of Trump voters. Most Republican officials do.
Me: But you’re a former official. You're not running for Congress again. What are you afraid of?
He: I hate to admit it, but I’m afraid of them. Some of those Trumpistas are out of their fu*king minds.
Me: You mean you’re afraid for your own physical safety?
He: All it takes is one of them, you know.
Me: Wait a minute. Isn’t this how dictators and fascists have come to power in other nations? Respected leaders don’t dare take a stand.
He: At least I’m no Giuliani or Gingrich or Pence. I’m not a Trump enabler.
Me: I’ll give you that.
He: Let me tell you something. Most current and former Republican members of Congress are exactly like me. I talk with them. They think Trump is deplorable. And they think Giuliani and Gingrich are almost as bad. But they’re not gonna speak out. Some don’t want to end their political careers. Most don’t want to risk their lives. The Trump crowd is just too dangerous. Trump has whipped them up into a g*ddamn frenzy.

(10-30-2016, 12:17 AM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 07:53 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:



I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.

Why do you feel deprived and going through this time period for no reason? As for conforming it is just a matter of finding your group that you share something in common with.

Because the expectations are ridiculous and there's tons of hoops made to jump through. I feel deprived because I was born in the wrong time and I have to feel the shaft and backlash of all these emerging trends. It feels pointless because the 1T won't be what I want. If I sacrifice for it, it means I will have sacrificed so some arbitrary generation ahead of me gets what they want but I don't. It just seems like a point of life I was just thrust into and I have to be taken along for this whole ride. So I'm gonna spend the 1T doing whatever I want to make up for the lost time. Otherwise this whole time period will have been completely pointless to me and my deprivation will last until the time I get old.

(10-31-2016, 06:36 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: What year were you born?  If you're Gen X, that's what the generational cycle deals out to Reactives.

(10-31-2016, 06:16 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 06:36 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: What year were you born?  If you're Gen X, that's what the generational cycle deals out to Reactives.

Huh? 

I guess it depends on geography or something.
1962-1968  1T
1969-1984  2T
1985-2007 3T
2008-?  4T.

The only sucky turning is the 4T.  The US has gotten to be really loopy and stupid as of 2008. All of those prior turning have been great and I have no complaints whatsoever.

(11-01-2016, 05:16 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 04:36 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.

Ah I do not think so if we are to take the apollonian/dionysian saeculum theory seriously. You guys messed things up culturally with no solution to fix what was messed up.

Quote:The next prophets in America will be what we have over in my country currently; apollonian prophets. So, similar to your missionaries. They will be more organized. When I look at our boomers who are apollonians and look at what they are doing and compare them to the cultural mess that is the American boomers I have to say you guys are anything but quaint. I am appalled at the mess and appalled that these discussions still have to be said in this day and age and of all places, America. Worse still that there has been no solution, no resolve.

Quote:Such is the fate of a dionysian group that can only create mess but cannot fix it. But that is the role for generations who crave law and order like myself. I do not see you American boomers as anything even comparable to "quaint."

Quote: I see the opposite of that in fact. Two sides screaming at each other and pushing the destruct button on both sides pulling a nation apart even further for self serving gain. This is not the way to bring a country together. This is certainly not the way towards building a strong nation. I see dionysians as mess makers. Not worthy of the word "quaint." I could use that word though for our boomers who are more collective and love law making to fit round their ideals.

(11-01-2016, 05:16 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 04:36 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.

Ah I do not think so if we are to take the apollonian/dionysian saeculum theory seriously. You guys messed things up culturally with no solution to fix what was messed up. The next prophets in America will be what we have over in my country currently; apollonian prophets. So, similar to your missionaries. They will be more organized. When I look at our boomers who are apollonians and look at what they are doing and compare them to the cultural mess that is the American boomers I have to say you guys are anything but quaint. I am appalled at the mess and appalled that these discussions still have to be said in this day and age and of all places, America. Worse still that there has been no solution, no resolve. Such is the fate of a dionysian group that can only create mess but cannot fix it. But that is the role for generations who crave law and order like myself. I do not see you American boomers as anything even comparable to "quaint." I see the opposite of that in fact. Two sides screaming at each other and pushing the destruct button on both sides pulling a nation apart even further for self serving gain. This is not the way to bring a country together. This is certainly not the way towards building a strong nation. I see dionysians as mess makers. Not worthy of the word "quaint." I could use that word though for our boomers who are more collective and love law making to fit round their ideals.

(11-01-2016, 08:13 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 07:25 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 05:16 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 04:36 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.

Ah I do not think so if we are to take the apollonian/dionysian saeculum theory seriously. You guys messed things up culturally with no solution to fix what was messed up. The next prophets in America will be what we have over in my country currently; apollonian prophets. So, similar to your missionaries. They will be more organized. When I look at our boomers who are apollonians and look at what they are doing and compare them to the cultural mess that is the American boomers I have to say you guys are anything but quaint. I am appalled at the mess and appalled that these discussions still have to be said in this day and age and of all places, America. Worse still that there has been no solution, no resolve. Such is the fate of a dionysian group that can only create mess but cannot fix it. But that is the role for generations who crave law and order like myself. I do not see you American boomers as anything even comparable to "quaint." I see the opposite of that in fact. Two sides screaming at each other and pushing the destruct button on both sides pulling a nation apart even further for self serving gain. This is not the way to bring a country together. This is certainly not the way towards building a strong nation. I see dionysians as mess makers. Not worthy of the word "quaint." I could use that word though for our boomers who are more collective and love law making to fit round their ideals.

You seem to have a very rose colored view of the Missionary generation.  In some ways they were more extreme than Boomers; for example their war on drugs went much further than the Boomer one.  And WWII killed a lot of people.

I never said they were not more extreme. They were about law and order and they are much more organized than the horseshit division the boomers in America created in the culture with no resolution. WW2 was justified if you have paid attention to what went on during that time. I admire the missionaries much more than American boomers for these reasons. They actually had their shit together in comparison and ww2 was justified to fight against fascism.

Warren Dew Wrote:To be more specific, nothing I know of that has happened during this fourth turning so far has yet risen to the level of the Kent State shootings, which weren't even during a crisis period, let alone the Honea Path massacre and other similar labor incidents in the 1930s or General MacArthur's military dispersal of the Bonus Army in 1932.

(11-01-2016, 09:47 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 08:13 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 07:25 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 05:16 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 04:36 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.

Ah I do not think so if we are to take the apollonian/dionysian saeculum theory seriously. You guys messed things up culturally with no solution to fix what was messed up. The next prophets in America will be what we have over in my country currently; apollonian prophets. So, similar to your missionaries. They will be more organized. When I look at our boomers who are apollonians and look at what they are doing and compare them to the cultural mess that is the American boomers I have to say you guys are anything but quaint. I am appalled at the mess and appalled that these discussions still have to be said in this day and age and of all places, America. Worse still that there has been no solution, no resolve. Such is the fate of a dionysian group that can only create mess but cannot fix it. But that is the role for generations who crave law and order like myself. I do not see you American boomers as anything even comparable to "quaint." I see the opposite of that in fact. Two sides screaming at each other and pushing the destruct button on both sides pulling a nation apart even further for self serving gain. This is not the way to bring a country together. This is certainly not the way towards building a strong nation. I see dionysians as mess makers. Not worthy of the word "quaint." I could use that word though for our boomers who are more collective and love law making to fit round their ideals.

You seem to have a very rose colored view of the Missionary generation.  In some ways they were more extreme than Boomers; for example their war on drugs went much further than the Boomer one.  And WWII killed a lot of people.

I never said they were not more extreme. They were about law and order and they are much more organized than the horseshit division the boomers in America created in the culture with no resolution. WW2 was justified if you have paid attention to what went on during that time. I admire the missionaries much more than American boomers for these reasons. They actually had their shit together in comparison and ww2 was justified to fight against fascism.

There was as much division in the 1930s as there is now; it just got papered over during and after the war.  And the cause of WWII was the Treaty of Versailles, where of those on the Anglo American generational cycle, the Missionary Lloyd George outmaneuvered the Gilded Wilson

(11-28-2016, 03:34 PM)Skabungus Wrote:

Warren Dew Wrote:To be more specific, nothing I know of that has happened during this fourth turning so far has yet risen to the level of the Kent State shootings, which weren't even during a crisis period, let alone the Honea Path massacre and other similar labor incidents in the 1930s or General MacArthur's military dispersal of the Bonus Army in 1932.

Really?  Look at what is happening at Standing Rock?  None dead yet but it is escalating fast.  The new Bonus Army is on its way to Standing Rock.  It will arrive on December 4th and 5th.  And you wonder why the USACE decided to close the camp on the 5th.  Just wait.

(11-28-2016, 03:34 PM)Skabungus Wrote:

Warren Dew Wrote:To be more specific, nothing I know of that has happened during this fourth turning so far has yet risen to the level of the Kent State shootings, which weren't even during a crisis period, let alone the Honea Path massacre and other similar labor incidents in the 1930s or General MacArthur's military dispersal of the Bonus Army in 1932.

Really?  Look at what is happening at Standing Rock?  None dead yet but it is escalating fast.  The new Bonus Army is on its way to Standing Rock.  It will arrive on December 4th and 5th.  And you wonder why the USACE decided to close the camp on the 5th.  Just wait.